One difference between the tree in the Quran vs Bible is that the tree (afaik) has no association with knowledge. The Quran only speaks to it being forbidden to eat from. And Satan's whisper to them was that God didn't want them to become angels or immortal (i.e. forever staying in heaven), and if they did they would essentially stay in heaven forevermore (7:20).
So God forbidding the tree is not because He didn't want Adam and Eve to have knowledge. Everywhere in the Quran, knowledge is emphasized and prioritized, and many times God speaks to how He granted knowledge to humans that they didn't have.
If you build on that, then a person of God is someone who has deep self-knowledge and who isn't gullible and easily preyed on. And yes, of course, religion is always weaponized and twisted to keep the masses ignorant and in fear, but that's not the fault of the belief system; the fault lies with the abusers of the belief system for ulterior motives. Hence it's crucially important to engage with the Quran (I'm Muslim so I speak from my experience and pov) directly, in its language, and not just through translations and works of tafseer and what your local scholars say, while realizing the value of all of these secondary and tertiary and whatever-ary sources. All the good stuff about not re-inventing the wheel and the fact that you can't disregard thousands of years of knowledge production.
Anyways, thanks for reading haha, I've said a lot.
I’m very happy that the episode interested you and that you listened all the way through!! Thank you, and thank you for these very thoughtful comments. We probably disagree about some details but we agree on the most important points…and that is very gratifying to me.
Interesting read, and I disagree. Well, I'd need to give it a few more reads to detail exactly what arguments I disagree with. I do agree with everything about a person having self-knowledge being very dangerous to capitalism.
As for what I disagree with, it would be the broad narrative of Even and Adam. I have not read the Bible so I cannot refute any arguments you've made quoting the Biblical story of Eve. But I have read the Quran and the Quranic narrative for what happened with Adam and Eve is very different, and would result in a very different direction for this discussion of self knowledge.
I will come back to say more (very intriguing post afterall) but for now I will just say that in the Quran, God gives Adam knowledge. "And He taught Adam the names—all of them..." (2:31) I highly recommend reading up on the tafseer of that verse. But point being, Adam was not ignorant, and God didn't want ignorance for humanity. It's the exact opposite, where God gave knowledge to humanity, knowledge that even the angels weren't given. All that is to just say that if you consider the Quran, then you might gain an entirely different perspective on God, Adam, and Eve.
Dang, we can't edit comments.
I might comment a bunch if thoughts come to me.
One difference between the tree in the Quran vs Bible is that the tree (afaik) has no association with knowledge. The Quran only speaks to it being forbidden to eat from. And Satan's whisper to them was that God didn't want them to become angels or immortal (i.e. forever staying in heaven), and if they did they would essentially stay in heaven forevermore (7:20).
So God forbidding the tree is not because He didn't want Adam and Eve to have knowledge. Everywhere in the Quran, knowledge is emphasized and prioritized, and many times God speaks to how He granted knowledge to humans that they didn't have.
If you build on that, then a person of God is someone who has deep self-knowledge and who isn't gullible and easily preyed on. And yes, of course, religion is always weaponized and twisted to keep the masses ignorant and in fear, but that's not the fault of the belief system; the fault lies with the abusers of the belief system for ulterior motives. Hence it's crucially important to engage with the Quran (I'm Muslim so I speak from my experience and pov) directly, in its language, and not just through translations and works of tafseer and what your local scholars say, while realizing the value of all of these secondary and tertiary and whatever-ary sources. All the good stuff about not re-inventing the wheel and the fact that you can't disregard thousands of years of knowledge production.
Anyways, thanks for reading haha, I've said a lot.
I’m very happy that the episode interested you and that you listened all the way through!! Thank you, and thank you for these very thoughtful comments. We probably disagree about some details but we agree on the most important points…and that is very gratifying to me.
Interesting read, and I disagree. Well, I'd need to give it a few more reads to detail exactly what arguments I disagree with. I do agree with everything about a person having self-knowledge being very dangerous to capitalism.
As for what I disagree with, it would be the broad narrative of Even and Adam. I have not read the Bible so I cannot refute any arguments you've made quoting the Biblical story of Eve. But I have read the Quran and the Quranic narrative for what happened with Adam and Eve is very different, and would result in a very different direction for this discussion of self knowledge.
I will come back to say more (very intriguing post afterall) but for now I will just say that in the Quran, God gives Adam knowledge. "And He taught Adam the names—all of them..." (2:31) I highly recommend reading up on the tafseer of that verse. But point being, Adam was not ignorant, and God didn't want ignorance for humanity. It's the exact opposite, where God gave knowledge to humanity, knowledge that even the angels weren't given. All that is to just say that if you consider the Quran, then you might gain an entirely different perspective on God, Adam, and Eve.